From Tour to Total Price:
How Transparency Drives Leasing Decisions

Hello, everyone, and welcome. Thank you for joining us today. We are so excited for today's co presentation of From Tour to Total Price, How Transparency Drives Leasing Decisions, hosted by Grace Hill and Ingrain. Today, we are teaming up to tackle the issue of fee transparency head on. We'll explore why hidden fees and complex pricing structures can create unnecessary friction in the leasing process and how to create a more transparent approach to actually help set your properties apart. We'll also walk through our newest feature, an enhancement that brings ingrained sitemaps interactive fee calculator directly into unit videos. And if I may insert a small disclaimer here, of course this webinar is for informational purposes only and should not replace legal advice. Please consult your legal counsel for guidance specific to your region. Okay it looks like most of our audience has joined by now. As you're hopping on, drop us a note in the chat with the city and state where you're tuning in from. Say hello to your fellow attendees. You may even want to add a heart if you are a Grace Hill or an Engrain customer. We love our customers. Also, we invite you to send any questions you may have today through the q and a box located in your Zoom webinar panel. We will have some time to answer them towards the end. So let's get started. I'm pleased to introduce today's presenters. First up, Kevin Walter, senior manager of technical solutions here at Grace Hill. Kevin leads Realync's product strategy to deliver a seamless integrated video experience for clients. His work is crucial in creating a better rental experience and driving more efficient leasing processes for teams across the nation. Next, we have Theo Janssens, director of product at Engrain. Theo leads product management for Engrain's interactive mapping technologies, including site map and unit map. They help scale the product team and drive development of data driven tools working closely with partners like Realync to deliver seamless, renter first experiences powered by real time site maps, pricing, and property data. Last but certainly not least, we have special guest Jessica Foster, senior marketing technology and operations manager at Bozzuto. Jessica leads the evolution of marketing technology and operational innovation across Bozzuto's management division while also overseeing the marketing transitions team. In her role, Jessica bridges the gap between marketing strategy and technology enablement. Welcome to you all. Thanks, Kayla. Hello, everyone. For several years, Realync and Engrain have been partnering together to bring our mutual clients a powerful integrated experience by marrying unit level media and engaging interactive maps. This allows the prospect to clearly see where a specific unit is on a property and what exactly that unit looks like. Now we're excited to make this experience even more transparent by giving our clients the ability to embed Engrain's fee calculator in all of their Realync unit media. I'm also thrilled to have Jessica Foster joining us today. When we're planning this webinar, we really knew that your insight of perspective would be essential to the conversation. But now to Theo for more on fee transparency. Thanks, Kevin. Hi, everyone. As as Kevin mentioned, my name is Theo. I'm from the Engrain product team, and somehow in the last year, year and a half, we've suddenly become, experts or trying to be experts on fee transparency. So part of what we're gonna do in this webinar today is provide a little bit more information about fee transparency. Obviously, this is a topic that has sort of taken our industry by storm, and so we just wanna make sure you guys have some information that you can take back to your teams and your leaders to to share. So, you know, starting at very high level, what is fee transparency? It it's kind of a funny term to define because I feel like we all inherently know what that means. But really at its most basic level, it's it's stating the price that our renters will see upfront. This is not after they enter their email and their personal information. This is not after they visit the leasing office or make a phone call. This is the price that they're gonna see whether they're visiting, a property website or they're going to an ILS listing or maybe even, using an AI driven search tool like Gemini. I think, you know, if you're in this webinar, that's something you're probably already familiar with. That said, this is a priority not just for renters. We wanna make sure, obviously, renters have the information they need to make informed decisions, and this is part of the value of the partnership between Realync and Engrain is giving renters the power to see unit level information, whether that's tours or price. But it's also important for property managers and those who are focused on really marketing and leasing. One example just to give it a very high level, we actually have seen sort of this shift, right, in the market of some properties are showing total monthly leasing price. And when I say that term, I'm really referring to base rent, which has historically been the price shown plus any monthly mandatory fees. Showing that price is sort of creating a a shift in the industry in general. So for example, if you're, you know, working in a particular region, let's just take, you know, the Denver area where I'm from as an example, And some of the properties in the Denver area are only showing base rent. In other properties, maybe your competitors next door, are not just showing base rent, but they're also showing that total monthly leasing price. You're gonna start to see a shift in the information that renters have. And so we really wanna think about this as, you know, a rising tide lifting all boats. Everybody really needs to get on board with showing more transparent pricing. And ironically, what we're noticing just from the data that we're getting is that most renters already believe that the rent they're seeing on an ILS listing or on their website already includes those standard monthly fees. Zillow actually did some research on this, And and we're actually finding as well, this is coming from consumer housing, that ninety four percent of renters agree that listing should clearly display all fees. This is the classic Ticketmaster scenario. You list one price or an airline. You list one price. I get all the way to the end. I budgeted around a price. And then you're tacking on all of those fees, really, you're creating a lack of renter trust. Meanwhile, that property next door that's clearly breaking down all fees is already going to be able to have that renter pre preselect themselves, pre prequalify themselves in terms of whether or not they can afford to live there. And, also, they're just gonna have a better sense of satisfaction. As you can see here from our our early research with the fee transparency features we've rolled out, we've learned that ninety eight percent of renters want to see that total monthly leasing price. They don't wanna be surprised when they show up on-site or when they get to signing the lease documents. Next slide, Kevin. I wanna talk just briefly about regulations. This this this presentation is not going to go into great detail about these, but, obviously, we know this is coming from both, you know, at the state level and then in individual jurisdictions. For example, Portland has very specific requirements around fee transparency and what can and cannot be displayed. These four that we've included on this slide are some of the most recent ones. You'll you'll know if you've been in this for a little bit. There are other areas like, Minnesota and Virginia that have already released many of these regulations. I'm just gonna call out a a couple here. Massachusetts going, having many of their their their laws go into effect September second, Connecticut closely following as well as Nevada. And really the ones that we're hearing a lot of our customers, many of you folks here on the webinar today talk about are the requirements for Colorado. I'm not gonna go into these too specifically. If you're working with Engrain, we're obviously happy to provide some information about that, but I wanna touch on two key points here. The first one being in all of these states, it's really again about showing that total monthly price. In certain states, it has a different term or maybe it includes slightly different things, but, again, transparency being the most important. What fees do renters have to pay beyond just a base rent? I'll call out one note though, and this is something, you know, to consider whether you're you have general counsel you're working with or you're getting your information from RETSY or NMHC is there's also this concept just briefly of fee permissibility that we're seeing take place, particularly in the state of Colorado in January, where some fees aren't even allowed to be charged such as pest control. So, you know, again, this is just sort of a teaser of of of really how the industry is changing and making sure that you as PMCs are really thinking through how am I changing my strategy? Am I getting good information? Do I have legal counsel that I can speak with about these things? And the last thing to really point out here is these things aren't going away. I suspect in having talked with with many of our partners, both from the legal side as well as our our largest customers, we're gonna continue to see new regulations come out. This is not going away. This isn't, I've got Connecticut squared away for all of those regulations that just went into effect. I'm done. You really need to start thinking ahead and creating a more central strategy, which I'm sure Jessica will will talk about in a bit. The last thing we wanna just touch on briefly looking at the numbers, Kevin, you can go to the next slide here, is the oh, sorry. Just briefly. This is talking really about the need to be consistent, as I mentioned, across all of these states, and we're gonna come back to that towards the end here. But what you're gonna see from Kevin in just a second here is talking about really the value of it. So you can be doing this from a regulation standpoint, but from a marketing standpoint, we wanna avoid creating fiction and damaging trust with renters, and I'll let Kevin continue. Absolutely. Thank you, Theo. So as Theo stated and explained, there's all kinds of regulations going into effect, but and and that's playing a major role in the fee transparency discussion. But what about the renter's perspective and the market the marketing perspective? Because, ultimately, it's the renter's behavior and their expectations and their experiences that are driving a lot of these changes. And renters' behavior is not subject to state lines, so that's not going to it's just gonna keep on flowing from one state to the next. But just to put this into a little bit of perspective, and and Theo touched on this a little bit earlier, but I I bet most of us dread shopping for a car. And, really, it's not just because we know it's gonna be a big expense, but it's because most of us inherently don't trust. It's understood that the price we see probably won't be the price that we pay. So you're going and you're buying that car, and you know that there's a price tag. But when you when you get to that final price right before you sign, you start seeing those unadvertised dealer fees for, you know, a dock fee, weird fees here and there, window tints, security etchings, and it adds up to an additional seven hundred ninety five dollars. And and that just inherently makes you untrustworthy, like, untrusting of the whole experience. So why would anyone would wanna do that to their customers? And I think that a big portion of this around the renter's behavior is that all of us, not just renters, but all of us have become so accustomed to seeing total prices, you know, whether it be you know, all fees and taxes included for whatever purchase we're making, whether it be shopping on Amazon, calling an Uber, booking a flight. You know, we expect now to see what that final price will be, and we expect to know what we're going to be paying. And this sentiment is carrying over to the rental market. Renters aren't just shopping for base rent. They're shopping for their total monthly payment. They wanna know exactly what they'll be paying every single month so that they can budget for it. They don't want any surprises. And this is hard because there can be a lot of different fees with renting, and it can be challenging for anyone, prospects, to fully understand exactly what it is they'll be paying monthly, especially when there's fees that are associated with different stages of the rental cycle. And it's not easy for operators like yourselves because there are so many different fees that come from a multitude of different sources. They apply at different stages in the rental cycle, and you have to figure out a good way to maintain and provide that information in a clear and concise manner that rentals renters can easily digest and understand, and that's no small task. But, ultimately, nobody likes to be blindsided by a line item they weren't expecting, and that's where those hidden fees and complex pricing create can create friction and damage trust. But that's also where the opportunity is for operators, for the market. It's a competitive market out there, and being the trusted option is a powerful tool. So if you're displaying all of these fees up front and your competitor down the street is not, that can build trust for you while theirs is eroded. And and not only that, but it's a it's a transparent pricing can be used as a tool to build trust that also leads to a more efficient leasing process. According to a least recent Apartments dot com survey, they found that nearly six in ten renters would stop considering a property if there were unexpected fees at the end that increased the price above what was advertised. Nobody likes that surprise. But advertising that total price means you are marketing to the correct customer, which should lead to higher conversion rates and thus lower your cost per lease. More qualified leads, more efficient leasing process. Your agents are gonna be using their time more wisely. But it also fosters trust with the relationship with the renter, so between you and the renter. And that can have a lasting impact beyond just signing that initial lease and closing it. So let's think about your reviews. I mean, we I know. I mean, I I get granted, Realync. Doesn't do too much with reviews, but we all know that in the end, every company out there lives and dies by their reviews. Nobody wants to see one of those one or two star reviews pop up. And having one of those unexpected fees that pops up just opens a door for somebody to go and and put one of those negative reviews out there. And the reality is is that we all know we're probably guilty of it too. We're way more likely to post a negative review than a positive one. I try my best not to, but it happens. So I guess we feel like we need to warn others. That's the way I look at it. We're trying to do good, but it ends up being in the wrong way. And that's a big deal. But, also, it building that relationship, building that trusted relationship with your renters can also lead to a better experience for you, a better likelihood of securing that renewal when it comes time when the end of their lease rolls around. I mean, would you rather be sitting on the other side of the table with a with a renter that is happy with their experience and trusts you implicitly or one that has been upset from day one because when they signed that lease, there was a two hundred and fifty dollar application fee that was not disclosed upfront. So just food for thought there, and I think it's a really powerful marketing tool just to build that foundation of trust from the get go with clients. And, historically, so much of this information has been siloed or restricted between different platforms. And leveraging today's technology and integrations between different platforms is really what is allowing companies like Engrain to centralize all of your unit level data, the different costs, the media from companies like Realync, to be able to tell the complete story and provide that clear and transparent experience that renters can use as a foundational element to start their rental experience. I mean, if you think about it, a map is inherently transparent, what Engrain provides. Being able to see and have the context of where that unit is on a map, what it does it overlook the parking lot? Does it is it next to the dog park? Does it look over the water? And then combining that with an actual video of a unit, and then in the end, layering the fees, the exact total monthly price, spelling it all out nice and neat. That's a really powerful piece of transparency just to get the give the renters really what they want. And to speak to that, we have bunch of different data points. 99% of renters say that unit level details matter, and they want to be able to envision or see the exact unit they will be renting. So that's why having a solution like Engrain and Realync can really, really speak to that prospect. They're on your website. They're engaging, and they're able to see exactly what they want at exactly the right time. You meet that prospect where they are. And, also, our data, Realync's data, which we've we've gathered from hundreds of our clients, included, across Yardi, Entrata, hundreds of different properties, it shows that when prospects engage with Realync video content, they're three times more likely to rent. So we know that prospects this is what they're looking for. This is what the renters are interested in. And Ingrain also has data that backs this up. So Ingrain's data shows that prospects spend eighty eight percent longer on unit level search and interactive map pages than they do on floor plan pages once a site map is integrated. And additionally to that, adding a site map to your property increases the virtual tours and SGT volume by up to a hundred and four percent. So all of this data is reflective of that transparent experience, combining the context of the unit's location on a map, the video of that specific unit, and the fees that renters are are looking for now that they're expecting. And that shift is just gonna keep happening. It's it's something that would require, you know, renters to really change their behavior and what they're looking for. So fee transparency, you know, it it is a huge time consuming challenge, but now there are ways to get around that and make it better. So I'd also say it's a huge opportunity for operators. So maybe it's best to hear that from the perspective of an operator like Jessica. Thanks, Kevin. I love that Theo gave Ticketmaster a shout out. Little did I know being a Swiftie three years ago would turn into this entire project for me at work today, but here we are. We won the battle, and we're gonna try to win this one too. But Kevin and Thea also highlighted this, the growing need for operators to create kind of, like, a centralized location for all of their fees and a a centralized source of truth no matter what size you are. I mean, you could be just fifteen properties or you could be four hundred and fifteen properties. It doesn't matter. There just needs to be some kind of synergy or centralized location for all these fees to be housed in. And our industry is just very lucky that Engrain stepped up to the challenge and became that tech partner to help us centralize this data along with developing an API that allows our other tech partners to capitalize on this information like Relink. So with growing legislation, it's really important that we have the ability to access all this information at once to ensure that, one, we're compliant with all of the regions that our company operates in, and, two, just for our site teams to be able to see the information and be able to re put that information from our prospects and our residents. So that kind of goes in line with scalability. That is so important here too for any operator of any size to be able to make adjustments to fees quickly and then deploy those changes across a region, a client's portfolio, or the entire portfolio for that matter of fact. So fee transparency changes every single day, it seems, like, every single minute maybe to the to this moment right now. So we all have to be really agile in these efforts. Our team, specifically, we have daily sprints depending on different topics at hand with this subject, and it just allows us to be relevant but also proactive with everything going on. And from those sprints, we were able to have that scalability put into the forefront. So one of the things that came out of those meetings was no longer can we have print or creative collateral because that can quickly change and become outdated, and it can also not be comprehensive. Because with some of the legislation that Theo was pointing out, you have to showcase all the fees no matter what. So we had to kind of pivot and find a way that our site teams and our prospects had some kind of, like, dynamic solution for them to reference quickly and efficiently. And because of that Engrained fee data API, our web developers were able to create an exportable PDF on our property websites that's dynamic and can be utilized by prospects, site teams, and residents. So I always say, like, our job on this side of the table is to make the lives of our site site teams, prospects, and residents as easy as possible. And this solution was just, a no brainer for us, and our legal department was obviously very appreciative at the same time to have that kind of resource available. And then so is Realync because they're also using it too to showcase our fees in their in their tool. So we just wanna ensure that our site teams, the toolbox that they have at the ready is equipped with everything that they need to be successful. And so we're actually gonna show you guys how the Engrain calculator works in action on one of our property websites and how Realync has capitalized on this as well with their own experience. And then we can also show you guys where we put that PDF download for our teams. So Theo is gonna take it from here to show you guys. Thanks, Jessica. Just by the numbers, obviously, we've worked very closely with the Buzzuto team, but they are not the only folks that we're working with. These numbers on the site map fee calculator side are a little dated. I actually found out this week we've just eclipsed the six thousand mark, and I think we're just gonna continue to see the acceleration. So currently, we have the, what we call the Sitemap fee calculator, which is a feature within Sitemap, deployed across around six thousand properties. To Jessica's point, it's not just the actual calculator that matters, but really behind the calculator. And we have made that data accessible to currently, over fifty partners are just getting the fee data from us. Never mind getting the site map from us. And this includes partners like all of the ILSs, our content partners like Realync, because, again, we really wanna be consistent in showing the same price, across the board. I think this is something we're gonna see a big push for in twenty twenty six. I think we're also trying to get our ducks in a row. And within those site maps, we actually have a lot of reeling videos, close to one point three five million views. And as Kevin pointed out, those views actually lead higher conversions. So now we're gonna hop in and actually look at the example Jessica mentioned for the property, Everly Darien. So we are on the, property website right now. You can see here this is just the classic site map example. We'll go ahead and click into one of these units, just briefly and and talk a little bit about what Kevin's showing. So here you can see, if you go back to the top for a sec, Kevin, you can actually see that price there. There's that estimated moving cost, and that's gonna be inclusive of things that the renter may have to pay at move in. So, again, a few years ago, you might just see that the base rent, but what are the fees I'm actually gonna have to pay at move in? And then, yes, when we click into the calculate my cost, this is where we see the the calculator, that we've developed along with some of our largest customers. Just briefly on the right hand side, we're sort of grouping fees into these key areas. What's that monthly recurring cost we expect to pay broken down here? Any known moving costs. So for example, you can see we've got the security deposit as well as the prorated, monthly cost, which would include base rent. And then on the left hand side of the calculator, we include any of the optional things. So this, of course, includes your parking and rentable items, pets, your number of applicants. And as Kevin selects, say, hey. I want a parking spot. Hey. I wanna add in, one of my pets. We can see that the costs on the right hand side are adjusting. But what's really cool about this, and if we go ahead and close out, Kevin, from this, this same data is actually being displayed in Realync. So we can see at the bottom, there's the, CTA to go to Realync, and this brings us to the Realync video. We just preloaded it for speed. So you've got that unit specific tour right here. But in addition, if you look on the right hand side, we have the calculator icon, and this is the same calculator that's displayed on the site map using the same data. So we're really working to create, you know, sort of that seamless experience, you know, where the prospect can actually watch the video, access the speed calculator, and see all those costs. And then, of course, have the opportunity both whether it's from the site map or from Realync, to apply directly to that unit. And, again, this way that they're prequalifying themselves. Your leasing teams aren't having folks show up and say, hey. What's the cost breakdown? And then they're having to leave and waste potentially your on-site leasing team's time. This allows them to have the unit specific information they need to prequalify and make that decision for themselves. And now we're actually gonna turn it back over to Jessica to talk a little bit more about meeting those renters where they're at. Yeah. Thank you so much for giving us a quick overview of the Engrain So right now, we're viewing the site map technically, and that's the fourth most viewed page on our property website following the home page, the application page, and then the floor plans page. So for this specific property website, the fee transparency initiative fee transparency initiatives went live for the property on ten one. So that was unfortunately after prime leasing season. But the views per active user compared to the previous month went up fifteen percent, while engagement rate went up eight percent. And our our team is kind of attributing the increase to the fact that the site map is becoming an all encompassing research platform for our prospects. They can see unit availability, price, the location of said unit, and also any deep video or media evidence of the product that they're trying to review. So we're finding that people are spending so much time in this area, and that also goes because of the API with Engrain page is also seeing a huge increase in activity. We had a thirty three percent increase in active users and a twelve percent engagement increase as well. People are spending well over a minute thirty on the floor plans page, and that's because of the calculator functionality and all in pricing can be viewed there as well. So prior to this initiative, our poor site teams were just, like, piecing together all of these elements for the prospect, which was creating a lot of manual work. We had no idea how much time they were spending on each follow-up, and they were, like, grabbing, like, the Realync video. Oh, here's the pricing sheet. Here are your top three units that we looked at, and here's the rent amount if you moved in today. But if you moved in next week, we talked about, like, it's just so much information into these follow ups that our poor site teams are having to manage. So this project has actually allowed us to be able to direct prospects to a centralized location for them to have everything in one place. And slowly but surely, our email follow ups are also becoming more streamlined with our other partners are having the ability to tap into this Engrain API and also Realync, who also allows us to use their features into these email follow ups as well to create really comprehensive email for our prospects to digest all the information that they were given during the tour. So I'm, like, really looking forward to how we can keep building on this project, with the renewal process, which we all know is hot and heavy now. We've helped the prospects a lot. How can we help our residents who are renewing? And it just kind of is proof that whenever you have an accessible API to tap into, we can accomplish so much as an industry. And I just really hope that the other partnerships out there see that the benefits that come with this, and, hopefully, we can start to capitalize on more open APIs that we can all utilize to make everyone's lives easier in this market. So that was a lot. But pretty much in summary, integrated technology like this really enhances operation efficiency and reduces friction for our site teams, which leads to higher conversions for all of our clients. So that is what, we have for you guys today. I wanna hand it back over to Kayla. She has some special offers for you guys. Thank you, Jessica. Okay. So before we dive into the questions that came in during the session, I wanted to take a brief moment to say that if you too are looking for a solution for showing total price, unit videos, other details on your site, we have a special offer just for our webinar guests. For a limited time, Realync is waiving the five hundred dollar setup fee, and Engrain is also waiving their sitemap setup fee of five hundred dollar value depending on your property size. Plus with your new Realync property online, you will receive an upgraded Realync starter kit. This comes complete with a Lululemon bag, selfie light, lapel mic, and more. This kit has everything you need to get started with capturing quality site level videos. Next, if you are interested in learning more about these solutions or would like to speak with one of our reps, type fall in the chat now, f a l l. If you are feeling festive, a fall leaf will also work. We will reach out to any question, reach out to answer any of your questions you may have and see how the Realync and Ingrain integration can help you seamlessly display the information residents need when looking for their new home. This special offer is available to new properties only. These deals end November 28th, so if you are happen to be watching this as a recording, you can also take advantage of these offers. Contact us today and get started on these deals before the deadline. Alright. So it's time for our q and a. We will do a live q and a. We're excited to hear from you. If you haven't yet, go ahead and submit those questions, you have about today's webinar. It could be about fee transparency, site maps, unit videos. Put your questions in the q and a section of your Zoom webinar panel now. I did see a few questions come in earlier, so I will start with those. Alright. Is the first the first one is, is the integration available now? And if so, is there an additional charge? The integration between Realync and Engrain is available now. It's been going strong for a few years, and there's no additional cost. Just at a high level, Engrain is is very pro agnostic when it comes to data. We like to share our information, our content with all of our partners. We think it's it's it's your information. You wanna share it how you like, so there's there's no cost to that. And the same thing for Realync, your Engrain integration and the fee calculator integration, those are all included with your subscription. So, really, you just have to have an Engrain an active Engrain account and an active Relalync account, we can make the rest happen. Very good. How or where do I start collecting this information from my properties? Oof. That's the that's the million dollar question. Jessica, why don't if you're cool starting, I'll I'll follow-up on you for that. Yeah. I think this industry is just very fortunate that we all work together to for the better good. So we learned a lot of life lessons from some other firms on what to do and what not to do. So, Vizuto is very, very thankful for their insight during this entire process. We did the painstaking overview of collecting the fee data site by site, and we like, the and I have talked about this pretty extensively. Like, this isn't someone's, like, fun part time gig with their their job. This is a full time job in and of itself, collecting, managing, and auditing all of these fees. So we have a small but mighty dedicated team who really literally called every single property to verify their fees to make sure that we were we had everything that was all comprehensive and encompassing of everything that could possibly happen. I mean, I think parking has at least twelve different variations of it within our our schema, which is kind of insane to think about. But whenever you work on this side, you're like, wait a second. There could be covered, uncovered, garage, street. There's so many different options. So we started that process of entering all that data into, like, literally a Smartsheet, Excel document. And then we've just been maintaining that, as we go with the ingrained team. We've been able to tap into some of their resources and be able to feed that data into their schema. I have to give him a shout out. Moise is, like, really the MVP on our team who's been working on this extensively for months. Eventually, we would love, and we are building this out now. We have an internal data warehouse, basically, of all of our information for all of our properties and our clients, and that will be our source of truth with our fee data. We'll be inputting all of that from the teams and then creating some ETL files that will go out to Engrain in our other partners', PMS systems as well. That's just how we're doing it. Literally, you guys can tap into your PMS. They probably have an option that you guys can utilize for inserting and managing your fee data. It's just a matter of collecting the information, ensuring it's correct. Where you keep it, you just have to be consistent with your processes. Because as we said in this demo, yeah, Colorado, Connecticut, oh, we did it. It's gonna change. Every day, things are changing and evolving, so you just have to have that centralized location that you can con continuously audit and keep up with all the different regulations that are going on. It is a beast. But like I said, when we work together, we can accomplish a lot, and we have so far. So this is amazing. Well said, Jessica. I think couple couple notes from my perspective having worked with the Bozzuto team and several others. I think the biggest thing is just getting really organized, having consistent meetings, and making sure you have someone who's who's really responsible for this full time. Jessica mentioned her colleague, Moiz, who is the keeper of the fees at the. Obviously, some point, you don't want this to be just a human driven thing. But right now, as you're sort of getting your your ducks in a row for the first time, it does help to have a dedicated team on this. I noticed in the the chat, there was a question about Yardi and really the PMSs and kind of where that's all at. So I'm gonna I'm gonna touch on that just briefly. We actually went live with our first, calculators and fee data this week that's coming directly from Yardi. So you might have heard Jessica mention that the Zudo has their own data warehouse, and, really, there's no one size fits all fits all, but we do think for for many of our customers, the source of truth for your fees should be your property management system. We do believe that. And we actually have just completed, rolling out some live calculators using data directly from Yardi this week. I'm probably gonna get some flack from my marketing team here because we haven't officially announced it, but we we are we are live, and we are continuing to work with some of our largest clients on that. So so we're out there. We're continuing to work with several of the other big PMSs, including Entrata and RealPage, to make sure that we can get data from them. If you're interested in working with us on any of those, please let us know. I'll say just from my perspective, obviously, it's complex. It's just like the first time anyone was getting pricing and unit inventory from one system to another. But I say the hardest part about it really is getting your data organized. Right? I can I can my engineering team can come get the data from you, but if your data is not put together and clean, you're not gonna wanna Engrain or anyone else to display it? So, to that end, there's no cost for activating the sitemap fee calculator. It's included in your sitemap subscription. So if you already have a sitemap and you wanna activate it, our team can do that. If you're saying, hey. I just wanna use the calculator. I'm not interested in using the map. That's also an option, and that calculator can still go to the Realync team, and those fees can still go to the ILSs. So that's just kind of a high level of where we see this going. I'll be transparent. The the product team's focus here at Engrain is continuing to get that fee data out to other customers as well as working on ingesting that fee data from the other PMSs. Very good. I think that you touched on this one in your answer. But just to be really clear, where do you store the fee information? Where do you suggest that single source of truth lie? Yeah. Great question. I think that in in your end game really should be in a larger database, situation. So this could be in your PMS or you can build a, you know, an independent, database. The the challenge for many of our smaller owners and operators is they don't have the tech team in house to do that. Right? So in order to build a scalable data warehouse, you're gonna have to have some know how, and that is one of the values of having the PMS. The PMS already stores lots of your information, much of which is written to the ledger, and the PMSs have APIs that allow third parties to access them. We are still waiting for some additional updates to some of the the PMS API so that Engrain can get the information we need and then distribute that out. But that, that that's sort of our recommendation is really, you know, leaning on your PMS if you can. Sometimes that that's a huge effort. And so, you know, Jessica mentioned some sort of internal tools that folks are using. There's nothing wrong with using a spreadsheet just to get organized. There's nothing wrong with that, just to start. I know that the Bozzuto team did that. Many other teams have done that. So so they're sort of what's my place to get it organized just to start? Say, if you're reaching out region by region and grabbing all those fees, and then you wanna think about what's my scalable solution? How am I gonna distribute that? And those aren't necessarily the same the same resource. And, also, like, just to piggyback off that, like, organization is super crucial here, but, also, your PMS needs to be super organized too. So it it it there are a lot of resources. I'm I'm a Yardi kid. I grew up in Yardi, so I'm very fluent with the Yardi product. There are a lot of resources within the Yardi dashboard that allow you to keep your fees, but it goes back to organization, organization, organization. You've gotta make sure everybody who touches that platform in Yardi Voyager knows exactly how it's supposed to be formatted and calculated because it just takes one person to set up the settings differently to kind of ruin the entire schema and the API that feeds that information to Engrain. So it's it's kinda crazy, but we only have, like, two people who have access to our feed data with Engrain, and there's a reason why we just don't want anything to get amiss or go awry whenever you're pretty much dealing with some legal consequences if the information isn't correct. So just making sure everything is organized and a single source of truth. So well said, Jessica. If you if you work with the Engrain team and you're not currently storing your fees in the PMS, you'll know we do have a solution. It's it's effectively a smart sheet, which is an online spreadsheet. It's not sexy, but the nice thing about it is it gives you clean visibility into your fees and allows you to change them. But one thing we noticed right away was, oh, I wanna have these seven people on my team enter fees. And and and to to Jessica's point, early on, I would just caution against that. This really is a data governance challenge here where you need to set up proper protocols in place to do this at scale. The fastest way to do that right away is with one single person. Obviously, that doesn't always work if you're a large property management company, but just be very intentional about educating your teams, whether that's, you know, taking the the guidance that you're getting from legal or educating your marketing team all the way down to your on-site teams about how to talk about fees. This is this is not just a a data flow thing, but an education thing as we're really seeing the paradigm in the industry shift. I noticed, Jessica McMaster, I see your question. We'll get there. I see Abby's question about Yardi. Great great call out here. So I wanna be very clear and upfront about this. There's lots of fee transparency tools in the industry, and Engrain by no means is trying to be the the leader in the fee transparency front. The and the reality is that's because everybody has to have fees in lots of different places, in online leasing, like we mentioned in the ILSs. As I mentioned earlier, we do have an integration with the the Yardi team today, and we work very closely with the Yardi product team, to make sure that our calculators are displaying the same price as much as possible. Again, this is something I think we're gonna see more folks working through over the next six months to make sure, hey. The price I'm showing on Apartments.com, the price I'm showing in online leasing, and the price I'm showing, say, in, Realync or on my property website match. So, yeah, that data can flow, Abby, from Yardi all the way into Engrain. And then I wanna touch on Jessica's question about pest control. Yeah. I'm I'm not a legal expert, so I wanna be very careful in what I say here, but there are fees that are not permissible in the state of Colorado effective January one. A Google search will provide that information. You can find that legislation directly. And, again, back to the point, there's there's really two topics here. It's really fee, transparency versus fee permissibility. Right? And so making sure you're you're following not just being transparent, but also being permissible. I do think we're gonna see having talked with some of the folks closer on the legal side than I am, we're gonna see changes in the next year. There are states that don't have any regulations in place that will have them. So it's important to pay attention to what are these early states? What are these early adopters doing that may end up becoming, you know, nationwide over time? So and and to that point, I wanna I wanna call it two key resources that we haven't touched on today. So, Engrain put together, what we call our fee master class. It's actually led by one of our VPs, Rebecca Fanning, who actually developed the ingrained schema that we use. And in other words, how we think about things, things like frequency, timing, value caps. The complexity of fees are so much greater than just the label and the cost. And so we're gonna ensure that after this, we're gonna send a follow-up with our fee master class video where Rebecca walks you through how to think about fees, how to organize them at scale. And that that class is free. It's recorded, and it's agnostic regardless of what PMS you use or if you're a small operator or a large one. The second resource I wanna call out, I know there was a q and a comment about how can I stay informed? And I'm gonna be very honest with you. How do you stay informed about legal regulations is something I think we're all trying to figure out right now. As Jessica noted, there's a lot of information being exchanged, peer to peer, so I definitely would encourage you to connect with your peers in the industry. What are you hearing? What are you informed about? The other thing I'll call out just briefly is the, REC C, and I had to Google it while we were in this to make sure I got the letters right, which stands for real estate technology and transformation center. It's a large organization that is keeping many owners and operators informed along with NMHC, and they're starting to produce some content on a more regular cadence that's that's keeping folks informed of these upcoming, laws and regulations. So those are just a few resources to point out. I think over the next year, we're gonna see some more defined resources that that people can consistently go to. But right now, yeah, it is it's it's tricky for sure, staying up to date on on what's happening in the landscape. And so I don't wanna pretend that I have a silver bullet yet because I don't. Alright. Thank you, Theo. It looks like that's the end of our questions. You scooped up a lot of them. Thank you for that. And that we've come to the end of our presentation. I'd like to take this opportunity to thank our speakers, Kevin, Theo, and Jessica, for joining us today, and educating us on the importance of fee transparency in the industry. Connect with our speakers on LinkedIn, next slide, by scanning the QR codes on your screen. They're on your screen now. If you'd like to rewatch or share this webinar, we've got you covered. You will receive a follow-up email with a link to this recording in your inbox tomorrow. There will also be, as Theo mentioned, bonus resources included in that email, Grace Hill's quick start guide to leasing videos that convert, and also Engrain's Masterclass Toolkit, including everything you need to get started on organizing that fee data. Thanks again for joining. We'll see you next time. Goodbye.