Easy Wins for ESG: Cost-Effective Strategies for Commercial Real Estate Firms

Hello, and welcome to our webinar, Easy Wins for ESG, Cost Effective Strategies for Commercial Real Estate Firms. I am beyond excited to share all of the amazing insights we have for you today. In particular, because of our guest speaker, who I know you're going to learn so much from. First, for those of you who don't know me, my name is Jen Tindall, and I'm your host for today. I'm the VP of Strategic Insights at Grace Hill who's bringing this webinar to you. So what all are we going to cover? Well, first, we'll talk about commercial real estate firms' motives for sustainability. Why do they care about ESG, in other words? Then we'll talk about co benefits of ESG. And don't worry if that's a new term for you. It was for me too. We'll explain what co benefits mean. Then before we wrap, we'll be sure to cover some low hanging fruit for improving your GRESB score. If at any point during our discussion you have a question, please drop it in the chat or use Zoom's q and a function. We're more than happy to answer at the end of the session. And now I am thrilled to introduce my friend and colleague who will be our star of the show, Kelly Soljacich, who is a Strategic Adviser to GRESB, which we'll be talking a lot about today, Moderne Ventures, and the CRE Tech Climate Coalition. Currently, Kelly works on the corporate partnerships and passport team at Modern Ventures, a technology venture capital firm. Before Modern, Kelly spent the past twenty three years at large institutional commercial real estate firms in asset and portfolio management. I have a strong feeling that you've heard of these companies. She's worked for Brookfield, Vornado, Deutsche Bank, and JLL through LaSalle Investment Management. During her last five years at LaSalle, she focused on and headed up environmental, social, and technology innovation at the property level. Kelly worked closely with sustainability teams to bring ESG solutions to properties and to their reporting. Kelly is also on the board of directors for the Greater Chicago American Red Cross. Kelly, you have such an interesting and unique background with tech, asset management, sustainability, and social. You know the life of an asset manager. You've experienced it. How they get budgets approved and the day to day struggles they have. You also understand the technology side, where the new innovations are created that make some of the efficiencies we'll talk about later possible. And finally, you've led so many ESG initiatives for commercial real estate firms. I can't think of anyone better equipped to talk about easy wins with ESG than you. So to kick us off, tell me, why is ESG important to CRE owners? Well, thank you, Jen, for that very warm welcome, and welcome and good afternoon to everyone in the audience. But to answer your question, Jen, while companies and funds of course care about their occupants and the communities that their assets sit in, Generally, ESG initiatives are done for one of three reasons really, at institutional real estate companies. Like, first is reputational, obviously. Second is operational, and third is really investor driven reasons. All three of which, however, can affect their investment returns. So no one in real estate isn't in the business of making money, and investment managers are actually fiduciaries to their clients, meaning that those institutional owners are legally required to do right by those clients. And even nonprofits have to balance their budgets so to speak and in order to operate. So those first two reasons are fairly self explanatory. You know first reputational. With the advent of social media, commercial real estate owners have to build and maintain a positive online reputation. Posting about environmental and social programming helps to maintain that, as well as the career satisfaction of its employees. And I'm sure you've heard the demand for employers with an ESG focus has skyrocketed in recent years. And then secondly, for operational purposes, the changing out of building systems at the end of their useful life or replacing broken hardware is a base part of running real estate and allows for natural opportunities for upgrades and energy efficiency and technology both. But that third reason, this is where some of the audience might not be as familiar with if they're not from the space. These are the investor driven reasons. Generally, when an investor is looking to invest in a fund or place an allocation with a fund, the investor will have an RFP with specific requirements and standards that they're looking for. Certain investors, especially European investors, have a much higher sustainability requirement and offer require a certain grasp score. I wanna stop you there, Kelly, because I mentioned earlier you're an adviser to GRESB. Can you tell us a bit more about their platform? Of course. So GRESB stands for Global Real Estate Sustainability Benchmark. So this is a global benchmark that funds can apply for and then receive a rating of one to five stars with five being the best. Only about twenty percent of the funds that apply though will receive that five star rating globally as it's graded almost on a curve. So funds who wanna be scored have to submit large quantities of information on an annual basis for their ESG data and programming both at the corporate and the property level. So to improve their score, funds will often undertake projects that they might not have otherwise done or potentially pushed off to future years. The categories generally include corporate management, policies and procedures, and that makes up about thirty percent of the score. And the other seventy focuses on the properties actually and their data. The the seventy percent though for the properties is made up mostly of property risk assessments, building certifications, tenant and community engagement, the property's utility usage, and of course, its corresponding data. That's where carbon accounting software you may have heard of, such as Measurable comes into play. Now be forewarned, if you're not familiar, getting full building energy, water, and waste data is one of the top challenges of every head of sustainability. So you'll hear my hands on products that can prove improve that data gathering throughout the webinar. Perfect. Thank you for that, Kelly. And for today, we're just going to discuss the ways that you can improve that asset level seventy percent portion of your GRESB score, again, without breaking the budget. The four parts we're going to focus on include tenants and community, energy, water, and waste. Now while the strategies we'll cover will also work for companies who don't report GRESB, For those that do, you'll have a much easier time getting project and budget approval due to the fact that these projects will specifically help improve your GRESB scores. Okay. Before we dive in though, I want to emphasize how much GRESB has grown in market adoption. Kelly mentioned that many European investors require GRESB. And while it is huge in Europe, we've also seen massive growth in the US and in Oceania. As this slide shows, the US saw the highest number of new entities reporting to GRESB in twenty twenty three. Oceana also had the largest percentage increase year over year. So to sum it up, we're seeing a ton of growth in sustainability reporting, not just in Europe, and I wanted to make sure that we mentioned that. Alright. Let's get back to your recommendations on easy wins, Kelly. Tell me, what are the first steps? Sure. Absolutely. So, to begin with, I find that it's best and most efficient to make sure to take advantage of projects with co benefits. Okay. Let's let's pause for a minute again because I was not familiar with this term before we started preparing for this webinar. So, Kelly, can you please tell us more about co benefits? Of course. It generally means what it sounds like, where a project or an item has more than one positive result or reaction of a rollout. So such as an asset manager might be looking at several options to increase occupancy of an office building, and one of the options is adding a green rooftop space. So not only does this add a beautiful amenity that helps drive leasing that the occupants will enjoy, but it also reduces wastewater costs, insulates your roof, helping that ends up helping to reduce heat loss and obviously then your energy bills to some extent depending on the size and type of the project. On top of that, for GRESB reporting funds, depending on its location, a green roof project can also quantify qualify for a biophilic design program which adds to that funds tenant and community engagement score. So that green roof may have been proposed for marketing and leasing purposes, but it also has sustainability co benefits. Oftentimes, property and asset managers are unaware of some or all of the co benefits of projects. So it's good for the ESG teams to review the capital budget options with the rest of the asset and portfolio management teams before they get approval. So this is actually the same part of the GRESB assessment score where your company comes into play. Right, Jen? Yeah. So having tenant or resident surveys completed at each property helps commercial real estate owners maximize that social score, which again is a co benefit to the obvious reason of finding out what your building occupants think and want for operational and capital planning. Exactly, Kelly, and thanks for the shout out. I will share more about how Grace Hill can help with our Kingsley surveys later, so stay tuned for that. But before, tell us, what are some of the low or even no cost programs that count towards that tenants and community part of your risk score? Yeah. Absolutely. So even before I was on the board of the American Red Cross, I was a huge proponent of donating blood. It cannot be manufactured. It can only be donated, so this is something that I feel like communities should do. So it became especially apparent to me this issue during the pandemic when the nation was critically low on blood supplies since there were the stay at home orders. No one was attending the blood drives. So one of my favorite easy win programming is setting up property blood drives with the American Red Cross. This one requires just a little bit of effort on the property staff, just getting people to sign up, normally, like, twenty to forty people depending on the location, but they can be held for free at any property type across the nation, where there's air conditioned common area space or vacant space. So and then some cities, also even just have the blood mobile that doesn't even require the space. They just pull up in front of the building. So these events have the co benefit of doubling as a tenant or resident event showing the occupants that the landlord cares about the community as well as checking the box for your tenant and community engagement score on your GRAS reporting. So sometimes we would then invite food trucks and host raffles to really engage those participants. YETI coolers by the way are a raffle favorite among these. And of course, we always made sure to take tons of pictures. So for you asset or property managers, if you decide to go this route, FYI, any surrounding food expenses or raffles can usually be funded out of that resident or tenant event budget, so no additional budgeting is needed for these. I love that. That is incredible. So how would you get started with setting up a blood drive? It's actually super easy. Right on the front of the Red Cross website, on the top ribbon, there's a button that says give blood, and then under that, you can select either the option of host a blood drive or learn more about hosting a blood drive. This one is a really easy win win. I love that. Alright. First easy win right there for you guys. Okay. What are some other easy wins in the tenants and community space? Sure. So some other things that qualify for that score are adding healthy vending machines, which are often free to owners as long as a certain amount of purchases are made for them each month. I've even asked those companies, well, what happens if we don't hit those minimum purchases? And while it turned out we would have to pay the difference if the minimum isn't met, they said we could just instead use that money to buy the vending food that we can then use later for a resident or tenant events, which as a property manager you're generally already going to be stockpiling it for use later anyway. So then there's other companies like The Rounds, which is also free for owners to use. These this company delivers, like, subscribe and save and farmers market type items in a low waste sustainable way directly to the residents. So then on the community side there's companies like Muros that add community murals to buildings potentially for free or even pay the property a kind of rental fee if that location is an interest of an organization or a brand. Some other cheap and easy wins that count towards your social score are organizing step challenges or a fun run or hosting CPR or other educational type classes either in person or online. Normally for larger organizations, it's it's easier for them to pick a point person or a champion at the property at or at a property first. Let them do it once and then share a best practices with the organizations for the so the other properties can utilize it and it becomes more of a programmatic rollout. Oftentimes, you're gonna find that many properties are already doing some of these things, but the ESG teams just doesn't know about them. So it doesn't get included in the reporting, and so this issue really becomes a real communication need. Yeah. That is such a great point. Lack of effective communication is a common barrier regardless of the industry or organization. And, you know, something you said reminded me, I've been attending a ton of Kingsley surveys presentations lately, and I feel like so many of our clients have seen an increase in tenants wanting healthy food at their properties. So I looked it up for you all and voila, you can see that there's been a massive increase in that particular tenant preference over the last quarter. It's actually over five percent and the largest increase across all office amenity preferences. Now, Kelly, I know you're a big Kingsley surveys user at LaSalle. Can you speak specifically to how you used your survey to ensure you addressed tenant preferences like these. Sure. Yeah. Absolutely. It's kind of funny. If you if you ask my prior analysts, I I always taught them that reading through the individual property Kingsley surveys was absolutely necessary, but done best done with a glass of wine. You get a lot of people complaining and sometimes it's kind of hard to take, but there are also treasures hidden in those reports. You could get a lot of people, there may be, but sorry. The we would read through the reports, right, before starting to budget in order to see what people's true concerns and problems with the property or staff were and what additional amenities they might be interested in or what they would pay for or what they wouldn't pay for. This helped us guide staffing and our capital budgeting. So for example, like, if in the surveys we saw a lot of people complaining about the parking lot or trip and fall issues, it might trigger us to do a lighting survey of the mentioned areas and often we would find that the occupants were actually right and there was a dark spot. So that might trigger an LED retrofit of the parking lot or common area lighting in the budget. So this also has a co benefit of energy cost reduction for the properties and can also affect your grass score. Yeah. Another co benefit. I love that. It's so important to dig into the details even if it requires a glass of wine or two. You never know what kind of gold you're gonna find down there. And that is also a good reminder for me to pause here and make sure that you know this chart is an aggregation of data across all of the properties that we survey, and it may not be representative of tenant preferences at your specific property. So be sure to examine your survey individually for your property before you make any strategic decisions. Alright. This has been such a wealth of information on tenants and community, Kelly. Thank you. Let's move on to the next category. So tell me, what are some of the low or no cost ways that we can improve our GRESP scores for water? Right. Oh, so so for water, there are companies like Fluidletics that for a low upfront cost, they sell you a device for your water pipe that slides in and just corrects the way your water meter incorrectly charges the property for air in the water pipes along with water. I think most owners don't know that the water utility is charging them for air too. This using this device results in a substantial decrease in your water reading the water usage reading by up to, like, thirty percent. And, of course, it has the corresponding co benefit of reducing your water bills at the same time. It can also track full building water data if you need it. Again, that data key, you know. There's also smart irrigation where sensors use moisture readings and properties grounds and also use weather forecasts where the landscaping can be redone with plants that are water efficient and decorative rock. And since planting often has to be redone every couple years anyway, this can just be incorporated into your normal landscaping budget when work would need to have been done regardless. Amazing. Thank you so much for these tips. And just so you guys know, when Kelly and I were prepping for today's call, we were actually talking about using Texas sage for our own home, xeriscaping. I actually have some photos of mine I still need to send to you, Kelly. So I'll try to remember to do that right after this call. But it really is such a beautiful native plant. It's the one that's pictured here and requires very little water to thrive. There are a ton of these native plant options that you can use at your properties, and you can apply these tips to your own home even. Alright. I am super excited for our next topic, waste, and I really mean that. I'll explain why. Stay tuned. Kelly, what are some quick and easy wins within the waste category? Right. So for waste, property's total tonnage reported can be reduced through composting programs or more aggressive recycling and e waste programs through companies like Dimension Waste whose platform is again free to the owners and they get competitive hauling bids for the properties. This can also get you full portfolio waste data in one place if a single platform like this is used. Or waste cameras or sensors can be added to dumpsters and compactors for a small cost. The co benefit of those is generally they pay for themselves in a month or two since the they confirm missed pickups by haulers, so then you don't get charged for those pickups. Amazing. And I love that. I particularly love composting. It may be weird to say it, but I have to say it, and I'll explain why. So almost ten years ago now, John Oliver, if you watch his show, did an episode on food waste. And I remember him saying that almost forty percent of the food created in the US never gets eaten. 40% y'all! And yet we have people who live in food deserts and are barely getting enough to eat. I was appalled then and have been composting ever since, paying for it out of pocket long before the city would cover it for me or provide it for me. But now though, Austin, Texas, where I live, is requiring composting for multifamily starting in October. In fact, properties in Austin are eligible to up to three thousand dollars in rebates to start or expand their composting service before the requirement goes into effect. And you can actually thank Kelly for that pro tip, you guys. So send her a note afterwards. I also wouldn't be surprised if they offer a similar benefit on the commercial side and require it soon too. So fun facts aside, let's get into some hard facts, again, from our Kingsley surveys data. I've seen over and over again in client presentations that recycling was the number one priority for tenants among their sustainability preferences. As you can see here, that trend has been the same for the last year. Recycling was number one or two or tied for those spots consistently. Honestly, I could have gone back much farther and you would see the same. I just didn't wanna inundate you with too much data. Last but most certainly not least, let's talk about energy. Kelly, can you give us some budget friendly wins on the energy side? You know it. So, for electricity, one of the first and cheapest things we looked at in the building is operational efficiency, meaning the training and the ops team's understanding of how to ensure that the operational systems are optimized in the most efficient way. The most energy efficient air conditioning system won't save you any energy or money if your ops team doesn't know when the right time to turn them on or off. Rolling out some basic education or training on the building systems that are energy intensive is generally the lowest cost way to make a difference in energy consumption and should always be the first step. So then there's the obvious replacement of building mechanicals like chillers and HVAC equipment with their more energy efficient replacements at the end of the useful life, which generally has a very quick payback for the cost that's above and beyond what you would have spent on that non energy efficient version. But there's also companies like Incentifine that for a couple hundred dollars will give you a full report on your property that lists out every incentive and rebate available for that property, allowing you to budget considerably less for those energy efficient replacements, including windows, insulation, chillers, heat pumps, and even EV charging stations. Yeah. So speaking of EV charging stations, with the rising demand for the feature, which I'm sure you have in your Kingsley report, and new legislation going into effect like Washington state mandating that a hundred percent of vehicle sales be zero emission by two thousand and thirty. Owners are scrambling to try to manage these installs, but they're hard to roll out at scale due to the high upfront capital costs. Now there are new ways that EV charging station companies like Zeal have introduced where they're offering create creative financing sorry, financing structures that allow for much lighter upfront capital investment in exchange for more revenue share. Then there's LEDs. I would assume that most of our audience would know, but LED retrofits also generally have a very positive ROI and can add considerable market value to your properties especially when you do it at scale, if you do it right. Or there's professional service companies like URS that does utility billing audits for multifamily that adds millions of dollars of market value to a portfolio in exchange for a short term percent of the savings they find. You can also have someone at your company work with an energy broker like Optimize Energy, Energy CX, or transparent and Transparent Energy, for both green energy purchasing. This reduces your portfolio's electric bills considerably, which also adds considerable value to your portfolio, again, at no additional cost to the owner while still checking that box for green energy usage and res. Or for multifamily, there are companies like Public Grid that allows all your residents nationwide to get green energy at a discount to what they would have paid directly from the utility, again, at no additional cost to the owner, and in fact give the owners revenue share and renewable energy credits for their reporting. This product also allows owners to have full building energy data for multifamily, which has always been a difficult task for reporting your scope three. All of all all of these obviously count toward, your GRAS score and help you improve it. Perfect. All great points. Thank you, Kelly. And I also know that access to that building energy data that you mentioned is a huge issue for single tenant industrial buildings too. Yes. And real estate needs a solution for this. It is not an easy win. However, you can share many of these best practices that, you can do internally corporate in in your corporate, structure with your tenants. Mhmm. And this, not only keeps your tenants happy because it helps lower their costs, but counts toward their ten your tenant engagement score portion of your. Perfect. Yeah. Amazing. Okay. I know we've mentioned co benefits a few times. We're gonna talk about it once more because I feel like we've covered so many different low hanging fruit today. So can you please just share what are the sum what are some of the co benefits specifically of the low hanging fruit that we've covered? Yeah. So two of the biggest overall co benefits of these strategies that we haven't talked about so far are marketing and brand reputation. Right? So rolling out many of these programs are worth bragging about on social media, on potential client RFPs, and client presentations. For the tenant programming, I always assign property employees to be the official photographer for that property's events because photos of the events or programs are essential to use that co benefit for marketing the effort that was put forth by the property and your team. However, you have to find a way for tracking these events and the pictures and the marketing materials that go with them. I would recommend at least some form of survey or even a specific location in your budget dedicated so that your team can mark what programs that they did that past year or plan to enact for the next year. This tracking, or, again, it's data, is essential in order to use these easy wins for grads reporting. Absolutely. And I have to say what wonderful post from your time at LaSalle that we're showing here. I mean, look at all that engagement, you guys. It's incredible. I remember you saying that this was such a huge part of your role at LaSalle. Salle. Right, Kelly? That's right. Exactly. Like I said before, some programs had been being done at the properties already, but our ESG teams didn't really know about them. These things normally did not make their way up the communication chain. We needed them to be communicated and documented so we could use them for social media and the client presentations and of course the grads reporting. We also gave in order to help do this we gave property managers kind of templates or what we call toolkits that contained a sort of how to manual, so they'd have some place to start rather than coming up with these initiatives from scratch. Basically, we're trying to make it as easy as possible for the properties to roll these initiatives out. That is such great advice. Thank you again, Kelly. Okay. Before we move on to q and a, let me share with you a little bit more about what we do here at Grace Hill with Kingsley Surveys. As part of our survey process, we provide you with the Kingsley Index or the KI, which lets you see how your property stacks up against your specific competition. We cover four property types, including office, industrial, retail, and medical office. Not only that, we can break down the Kingsley Index by geography and property class. And all of our data is super recent covering the latest twenty four month rolling period. How can we cover so many property types and other striations while still keeping your benchmark relevant? That is because we survey over two and a quarter billion, that is billion with a b, square feet of properties each year. Two and a quarter billion, y'all. That is a lot of properties. Kingsley Surveys is the leader in the industry with the most comprehensive benchmark available. Now you may wonder what all we ask in our survey. Here's a sampling. We ask about tenant satisfaction in property management, leasing, amenities, like the healthy food options we talked about earlier, maintenance, and much more. We also ask for feedback on ways that owners and managers can improve. As mentioned earlier, we also ask about your tenant's priorities as it relates to sustainability. Remember, recycling is key. And finally, perhaps most importantly, we ask tenants about their intent to renew and whether their space needs will change. This gives you a heads up on whether you'll need to meet with your tenants earlier about the renewal or potentially plan ahead for a backfill. One last thing about Kingsley surveys, and then we'll get back to q and a. You may know that we survey tenants and residents. But did you also know that we survey clients and investors? So if you know you're going to fundraise soon, you're not sure how happy your investors are with your firm, whether they're planning to ring up, we can be that impartial third party to ask about your plans. It's been such a difficult fundraising environment lately, and we are here to help you. We also provide corporate employee engagement surveys. These will give you a sense of whether your employees are satisfied with your company, their job, and other areas of workplace culture. This can help you engage employees to better increase retention. That's really cool. I didn't know you guys offered investor surveys. I, you know, I did know about the employee engagement surveys though since, of course, they're also needed for you for to get your full grasp score. That's part of that thirty percent we did not cover today. That's right. Yes. Good point, Kelly. Maybe we can cover it on another webinar. Let us know in the comments. And if you're interested in one or more of our Kingsley surveys and want to learn more, type the code word win into the chat, and our Grace Hill team will reach out to you. Now let's move on to that q and a portion. So we are ready for any and all of your questions. You have to give me a second because I've got to pull up the chat here. Let's see. Alright. Recycle. Recycle. Recycle. I love it. Okay. Alright. Okay. First question. I'm sorry. I've got to pull this up so I can read it. Can you talk more about how energy brokers work? Does it matter where you're located, or can you work with one anywhere? Kelly, I'm gonna let you take that. Sure. Yeah. So when you're starting out with energy brokers, it's it's probably best to first review your portfolio types and locations with them and make sure that it matches up with what they work on. And I would also make sure that they're getting you competitive bids and not just going out and grabbing the first one. Some people you you have to check. So generally, you're only able to procure bulk energy contracts in deregulated states. However, reviewing the tariffs used for each property in other regulated states is always a good practice since sometimes your property will qualify for more than one type of rate, like a time of day rate versus a flat rate, or it might be right in the middle between what they consider high rise versus a mid rise, and the rates might be different. So if it can qualify for either, you can pick the one that saves you the most money. Okay. Got it. Thank you, Kelly. Amazing. Alright. Second one I've got ready here. So how did you know what tenants would be willing to pay for in your survey? I I think this is probably in reference to something you mentioned earlier, Kelly, so I'm gonna let you take this one also. Sure. Yeah. Assuming that quest the question is is asking about premiums that tenants are willing to pay for amenities, In the Kingsley, there are generally questions that, ask them which amenities that they want but wouldn't pay extra for, ones that they would want and would pay extra for, and ones that they're just not interested in. I've even seen some of the surveys that ask exactly how much extra they would be willing to pay for each. So that's that's kind of how we figured that out. Okay. Got it. Perfect. Alright. Last one here, and get your question in questions in, folks. If not so, lastly, do you have any tips on increasing tenant turnout to community events? Yeah. Absolutely. Resident and tenant events generally flop due to either lack of hype, lack of incentives, or the timing. Right? Obviously, you have to know your tenant base and their normal schedules to maximize that potential participation. If your office building tenant occupants are nine to fivers that normally work from home on Mondays and Fridays, you'd likely try to plan the event in the middle of the week, either at the beginning, over lunch, or at the end of the day. Right? If your multifamily resident base are mostly wealthy singles that work from home, then maybe after work happy hours might get you the most participation. On the side of the hype, it comes back to good communication. Right? Posting pictures of people having fun at the prior events when advertising for the current one pushes people to jump on that bandwagon. Making sure to post the event on the property's social media, communication app, the elevators, common areas. These are all important since not everybody pays attention to each communication pathway. Finally, like, offering incentives, always helps. Always. Free or readily available food, and, of course, alcohol helps people feel like an event is more of a community gathering. I also find that raffles for attendees, with prizes, they normally like, the prizes that they normally wouldn't buy themselves, like, make them feel spoiled, have a real pull toward events if you're trying to gain participation. And and it makes it so you don't have to buy stuff for everybody, just one nice prize. And like I said before, the Getty Cooler seem to be a fan favorite. But, apparently, the newest AirPod Pros or the latest tech gadget also works pretty well. Got it. Yeah. It sounds like a lot of this is just knowing your community and having a good sense of who they are, what they want. I mean, I would take And it's already solved with that. Yeah. That's true. That is very true. Shameless plug there, I guess, unintentionally. Perfect. Well, thank you all for your questions and for joining us on today's easy wins for ESG webinar. I hope you enjoyed it as much as I did. Please feel free to reach out to me with any questions, and Kelly also has graciously offered to answer any ESG questions for you too. Her email is Kelly@moderneventures.com where modern has an e on the end, so don't forget the e. Okay. Also, if you're a commercial real estate firm looking for advice on prop tech or what tech to use to improve your GRESB score, definitely reach out to Kelly. She's a strategic advisor there. She knows her stuff. She can also tell you more about Modern Ventures partnership program or any of the companies that she mentioned on today's webinar. I was actually part of Modern Ventures partnership program when I was on the owner side, and I have to say it's a fantastic way to get a look at up and coming prop tech startups. So big fan of the program. Definitely take advantage of it. And that is love to hear from any of you. Yes. Please. Amazing. Alright. Thank thank you all, for joining us today. Hope you have a fantastic week ahead. Thanks, everybody. Have a great